Felix Salmon asked Why People Invest In Stocks now that, in his opinion, there is "no good reason to expect an equity premium going forwards, and if there isn’t an equity premium, then your allocation to stocks should be tiny."
This takes me back to the idea I have repeated from Taleb about 90% t-bills from around the world and 10% going berserk with volatility. Perhaps I am reading Felix incorrectly but I pick up a tone that not only is equity premium gone but that it won't come back. This is an important question that is always worthy of consideration but I believe it is easier to believe that the equity premium might be gone in the immediate wake of one of the worst decades for US stocks in modern times. Meaning stocks are less likely perform badly after they just performed badly.
"Tiny" was not quantified in the article but maybe tiny could mean 25%. Someone to whom this appeals needs to do a couple of things to avoid the consequence of being too conservative. First thing is save more money. If a portfolio has less exposure to risk assets then it has less chance appreciating so the difference needs to come from increased savings. Investing in risk assets takes on the presumed benefit of compounding at a rate greater than 1-2% but 25% in equities changes the dynamic.
In addition to saving more, the fact that the tiny portion would need to do more heavy lifting means that some sort of active action needs to be taken--obviously this is just my opinion and would be in complete disagreement with what Felix appears to be saying. "Some sort of active action" could simply mean an ETF mix that avoids the worst parts of the market like Europe, Japan and the US banks.
The idea of someone realizing that 70% equities was too much for them and making the decision to cut back to something like 50% is a reasonable reaction to the last decade and 2008. Someone taking this more moderate approach should probably save more money (but shouldn't we all?) but they would not be giving up the opportunity for compounded growth at a reasonable rate.
Deciding to shun risk assets after a bad decade for risk assets has the potential for some very bad consequences. I can envision a "whole generation" of investors giving up on equities at precisely the wrong time because they are told the game is rigged and that the stock market does not work. How rigged will people think it is if come May 19, 2020 the S&P 500 is at 4480 (quadrupling in a decade is not unprecedented)? 4480 is not a prediction, I have no idea about 2020 but a fantastic ten year run after a period of years where the market does very poorly would be far from a Black Swan event and I would not want that to happen without me or my clients whenever it might start; 2010, 2015, whenever. The consequence from a fantastic decade happening without people being in would be dreadful.
To be clear my baseline scenario is below average but positive returns for the US market with close to normal returns coming from select foreign markets.
I'll close out with a dog rescue story. This little guy curled up in the picture is Finn. Finn hopped the fence at his foster home on April 24 and had been on the run since yesterday. Joellyn and a few of her colleagues United Animal Friends spent a lot of time looking, they posted fliers where he had been seen and our phone had been ringing off the hook with news of sitings but no one caught him."Mike from Groom Creek" agreed to keep a trap at his house for most the time that Finn was on the loose and yesterday he caught Finn, not in the trap but with his hands which is amazing given how skittish Finn was/is. Mike took one for the team (small bite from Finn) but he was none the worse for wear and now we are fostering Finn--we have a six foot fence. Or maybe we are not fostering him if you know what I mean. A dog can last on his own like Finn did for a while but of course anything can happen as we have plenty of wild animals here but Joellyn never gave up hope.





16 comments:
I think you have something there with the possibility of a generation believing the market is rigged.
I am seeing more people in more online communities calling the market a ponzi scheme, rigged, or impossible for the little man to make it.
They are an extreme version of sell low, buy high as they probably won't change their mind until an incredible decade.
The S&P is UP 0.5% this year.
Why all the sky is falling talk?
This bull is taking a scary breather - so what
SEG
Thank you, Roger. I respect Mr. Salmon, but this line of thinking is just plain wrong-headed. I think your observations should be even more pointed.
There was a time several decades back when a trader spoke of "making a teenie". Meaning picking up 1/16 on a trade. Today a trader can work out to 4 or 5 decimal points. In doing so, a trader ie,a HFT, can put on a trade of 100 million and be okay to make a hundred bucks. Not a very good arena for the little guy to play in.
Also, decades ago, there was a specialist who would always take the other side of the trade (if he had to to maintain order and liquidity). Today, the other side of the trade is the little guy and he doesn't really have a chance.
So Roger, refute this statement:
"Today, the market is rigged against the little guy and he doesn't have a chance."
Not to say a guy can't or shouldn't have a "set it and forget it" portfolio. Just saying, a trader doesn't have a chance and is only gambling with odds worse than Las Vegas.
specialists is a term that pertains to the NYSE. The NYSE did not trade in sixteenths until well into the 1990s not several decades ago.
Specialists have always had to deal with the perception of trading ahead of the little guy because the could see the order flow. The manner in which it is supposedly rigged is now different...maybe, but you are framing the entire thing incorrectly if you believe the perception used to be it was fair. The same type of people who think it is rigged now thought so then.
I am not Roger, but to the question of markets being rigged, I submit that a review of the history of markets, from salt currency in Roman times through the first known loan to a valid State by the DeMedici's (it was the Vatican) to the rampant booms and busts manuevered by folks such as Cornelius Vanderbilt to punish or destroy enemies and competitors to the present, manipulation was part of the market. It was probably accepted as a cost of increasing business and personal wealth until recent times. With few if any regulations, I suspect that these type investors were much more sensitive to risk as no one covered their a**.
The difference today is that markets are not just the domain of the well-heeled. Money managers, pension funds down the money train to individual investors have so much so-called information thrown at them that they feel compelled to think they are bright bulbs if they just implement their best laid investment strategy. We hear of those touting success, but rarely hear of the portfolio flops unless they are Madoff-sized.And most of us know what happens to so many best laid investment plans.
Now, here (again) comes our Feds, with new "protections" for the investor. Great. Investors trying to outgame the regulations to make a quick profit will frequently find a way around the regulations. Other investors playing by the government rules will feel too safe, and still invest in products thay know little if anything about.
This is already long-winded, but regulating our markets, let alone worldwide markets, is similar to regulating human nature. If anyone believes that this can be done by the brilliant minds inside the beltway, I wish them luck.
T
Anon 6:53.
I need to plan for retirement for a time when I am unable and/or unwilling to work to pay for bills and to enjoy life. If you have an idea how I can do that in a non rigged market (equities, forex, real estate, bonds, whatever) then let me know.
Rigged or not, how successful or not I will be are the unknowns. What is known is that I will age.
I also want to question your second paragraph. If a specialist is taking a position then what difference does it make if the opposite side is a specialist vs the little guy who doesn't stand a chance. Its the same position.
Fear is how Wall Street makes money. Convince them that VTI/VEU aren't going to work, and they're going to have to spend more money on other ideas. Even Hussman, who I like and has beaten the market since his fund started, needs to justify his higher fees because his fund only works when VTI does not.
Meanwhile, the internet is full of sites like ZeroHedge where there is a firm consensus that the entire world economy will collapse and fall into the sea. This is just how anxiety looks online: it was going on with "Y2K" and it's a feature of internet culture.
I personally believe the game is rigged. It's rigged very clearly and will continue to be rigged. The stock market is rigged to keep going *UP* over the long run, and to offer real returns greater than bonds. The "little guy" only has a few advantages that need to be utilized: invest with a long time horizon, diversification, and low costs. With those advantages, the game is rigged in your favor.
Maybe "rigged" is not the correct word to use. The big players in the market, and let's face it, they control the market, could care less about an individual business. Long term investors are being shut out. Stocks are now a commodity and should be traded as such.
I think expecting the equity market premium to come back is similar to expecting the euro to survive. and this is a pretty interesting article on the ramifications for the year because of European policymakers' recent decisions:
http://www.goldalert.com/stories/The-End-of-the-Euro
The "so what" attitude about the Flash crash lends credibility to the view of a rigged market. There were obviously entities that profited from this event, and others that lost. This would be a fat tail event if there ever were one, but the official view on this is sort like it was a glitch, not a short circuit. I really don't get the lack of serious concern on this. FWIW, I had limit orders close to my advantage, so I'm not whining about a loss. I am concerned about the real dynamics of a market that takes Excelon to what, $1? If you are working your rear end off to define a strategy to gains an additional 2% a year over T bills, you would need to be insane to tolerate a 10% swing that resulted from no root cause, without wondering whether the system was a hoax.
Sam
I'm also in Rhianni's camp, looking for a a way to make my money work safely for me when I need it to.
Sam
I think the last year shows the equity premium lives. Yes, a few asset classes were up big, but none like equities.
On a more fundamental basis, i thank God for US-based multinationals. At a time when government at all levels can't get anything right, big corporations whacked their cost structures and revived earnings growth even while demand is weak. They, not government, face reality and take action. I am encouraged that the biggest companies are so internationally diversified that they are instruments of regulatory arbitrage, running faster than dumb legislators.
Happy to share your blog!
good article!I love it
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I am one of those small guys who's given up on equities. Buy & hold doesn't work anymore, and on a short time horizon it's impossible to compete with financial firms who employ math and computer geeks. It's just too much effort for little gain if any. I appreciate this blog for some of the alternative ideas it presents.
My portfolio going forward is about 5% emerging markets ETFs, 10% foreign bond & currency ETFs, 10% domestic bond ETFs, 5% precious metals, 5% HYGFX. The rest of the money is in cash. I recently used a bit of that cash to buy a cabin in the USA and a small farm in a foreign country. Both were very cheap. I think that collectibles such as certain types of antiques can be good investments. Having a small business or improving your skill set to generate some income into old age is a good idea. I also live below my means, for example I drive a 25 year old car (it's a mercedes diesel which still runs perfectly).
I don't really see why people et worked up over the flash crash either.
If I buy a dozen eggs a the supermarket one day for a dollar, I'm not going to fret if I discover the next day a batch of them were being handed off for a price of 0.01$ for a few minutes. That price is between the seller and the buyer at that moment - the fact one seller was extremely dumb while the buyer was extremely lucky doesn't impact my investment decision.
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