Wikinvest Wire

Monday, March 08, 2010

Continued Financial Fiasco?

Karl Denninger raises some interesting points in noting a consistent thread with the handful (sometimes more) banks that fail every weekend. In the post he details the extent to which the value of assets were overstated. For example;

Waterford Bank, Germantown MD: $155.6 million in assets, $156.4 in insured deposits. They were "underwater" by $800,000, right? Wrong: Estimated loss, $51 million. That is, the assets of $155.6 million were overvalued by approximately 30% at the time of seizure.


Karl goes on to list several more specific banks and asks the reasonable question that if so many small bank are doing this what about the biggest banks like Citi (C), Bank of America (BAC), JP Morgan (JPM) and Wells Fargo (WFC)? He notes that the combined assets of the four are $7.49 trillion (can't vouch for that but I take his word). Using the same percentage of overstatement he says the total overstatement of the biggest four could be between $1.49 trillion and $2.99 trillion.

It is not clear to me that assuming an overstatement in a percentage similar to other banks is valid but the question of whether they are overstating assets by some amount is valid. I am not making a Kudlow-type argument saying that projecting other banks overstatement is invalid because for all I know the big four could be overstating by more but to be clear I don't know and that is the point.

When I first started this site in 2004 I was underweight financials because their weight in the S&P 500 was around 20% which I took as a warning of potential underperformance not Armageddon. At that point I owned a bunch of foreign banks including two European banks and one domestic bank which was BAC. Then in early 2006 the yield curve inverted which is a warning for the economy but also specifically for financials because it makes lending less profitable but this again did not point to Armageddon. At this point in the portfolio financial stocks had drifted to a slightly smaller weight due to the performance of other things.

Then in mid to late 2007 after reading for weeks and weeks why European banks might be worse off than US banks I sold the two European banks (Allied Irish Bank and the couple of months later Barclays, I bought a Chilean bank with the Barclays proceeds). I disclosed selling BAC immediately after announcing the Merrill Lynch acquisition. In the aftermath of stock market event I started rebuilding financial exposure but avoided increasing bank exposure (I added a publicly traded exchange and an index provider).

Part of my ongoing apprehension with domestic financials, so at this point we own no US banks, is it is not logical to me that there won't be more shoes to drop for US financials. Denninger may have isolated a big shoe or not but I do not think it is necessary to know where the next financial sector problem will be or what the magnitude might be.

I realize this is a repeat theme but if this (the entirety of the entire financial crisis) was anywhere near as big as we were lead to believe then isn't it only logical that it will take a long time before we understand the totality of it all? Yet I guarantee there will be very smart people who are not allowing for the possibility of more fallout and will get caught positioned the wrong way yet again.

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yes, but this is what people (Roubini, etc.) were saying long before the crisis and were routinely dismissed. I think you will find that saying the sky will fall will not matter while the Fed is pumping money. It will matter a lot in the future when this expansion is over, but not now.

SEG

Paul said...

Is it possible that we have entered into a "too many to fail" environment in where the regionals, while zombie-ized, will continue to be propped-up by the administration? I think there is some validity in Ritholtz's view that we are choosing to be a Japanese response to bank failures and it will become "death by a thousand paper cuts." However, sudden movements in the financial sector should be a rare event and more of a slow drop, and you are wise to continue to avoid financials.

Roger Nusbaum said...

Paul the idea of turning Japanese or death by 1000 paper cuts seems plausible; my take is it could not be exact only similar but the bigger macro is just not wanting to bet client money i can figure it out correctly.

there are plenty of banks in other countries that are not fundamentally touched by this. these banks face normal risks not what has happened here.

Anonymous said...

http://tinyurl.com/ygwd23x

good perspective

Anonymous said...

Hussman weekly post seems to indicate dividend yield is important. After this expansion I think he will be proved very accurate.

SEG

Roger Nusbaum said...

i have made a similar point regarding dividends. an extra 100 or 200 basis points don't mean much when the market skyrockets or plummets but they matter a lot the rest of the time.

the expectation by Hussman that divs are likely to matter now, after a 60% lift certainly makes sense but that will turn out to not be true if the reaction to up a lot in 2009 is to go down alot in 2010.

Anonymous said...

Roger,
Can't resist even though this horse is dead and beaten (i.e., yesterday's stream of comments from me). But I notice that you seem to respect Hussman quite a bit, as do I. Wouldn't you agree that Hussman considers *valuation* (i.e., the price you pay to get into an equity market) to be the most important driver of long-term investment returns? Don't see how you can respect Hussman's point of view yet fail to consider a country's equity market valuation when doing country selection.
- aagold

Roger Nusbaum said...

quoting myself "take little bits of process from many sources and create your own process"

Paul said...

Rog - Thanks for providing a source of process!

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