Wednesday, March 31, 2010
Buy & Hold is DOA?
Yahoo Tech Ticker has a video and article up with an interview of Lakshman Achuthan from the Economic Cycle Research Institute, hat tip to Barry Ritholtz. My internet connection is not fast enough to watch the videos on that site (one of the tradeoffs of living in the woods) but I was able to get the gist from the article.
Achuthan feels we are in for more boom and bust cycles and so with that backdrop he feels buy and hold is not the best strategy. The comments were also interesting ranging from they're all crooks, to Bogleheadesque comments to comments agreeing with Achuthan.
Framing the argument in such definitive terms doesn't make sense to me. We all know that the S&P 500 was down 24% on a price basis in the last decade, adding in dividends it was down 4.5% for the decade. Whatever the result of the index obviously some stocks did better than the index and some did worse.
For the decade Caterpillar (CAT), a client holding, was up 142%. While there were a couple of trading opportunities along the way someone who held on for the entire decade added a lot of value with the pick. Even someone holding on during a couple of big declines for the name had a lot of luck with it for the decade.
Contrast that with Citigroup (C) which was down 91% for the decade. The stock spent most of the decade between $40 and $50 before rolling over in 2007. I've never owned Citi so I can't really pinpoint exactly when the story changed but after doing OK for quite a few years the story did change. I can only relate the financial stocks I sold; Bank of America for buying Merrill Lynch, Barclays in December 2007 because the UK was obviously in trouble and Allied Irish Bank in June 2008 as Ireland appeared to be deteriorating faster than most other countries. BAC was a very specific event and the other two were more nuanced than that.
Another example of a stock that was generally better to hold was ITT, not a name I own but recently profiled in Barron's. It was up 274% for the decade.
Over the next decade, assuming that Achuthan is correct, there will be stocks that outperform the index and stocks that lag it. In a portfolio of, for example, 50 stocks assembled today it is a very good bet that a bunch will indeed turn out to be good holds for the entire decade and that a bunch more will not. While I hope that is an obvious point it is also true.
Anytime a stock is purchased there are reasons for that purchase that are either bottom up, top down or a mix of the two. Forgetting about any tactical moves tied to sizing down or the like for a moment as long as the bottom up, top down or mix of the two that made the stock a buy are still in effect then generically speaking there is no reason to sell. When the story matures, evolves or proves out as being incorrect the stock is a sale. When has that ever been different?
I've said many times that I expected to hold Bank of America forever but it did not work out that way. After more than four years I sold it. I have some stocks that have been in client accounts since 2003 (before I joined Your Source Financial). I expect to hold these few names forever but if one of then does the equivalent of buying of Merrill Lynch then it would need to be sold. Again, when has this ever been different?
Achuthan feels we are in for more boom and bust cycles and so with that backdrop he feels buy and hold is not the best strategy. The comments were also interesting ranging from they're all crooks, to Bogleheadesque comments to comments agreeing with Achuthan.
Framing the argument in such definitive terms doesn't make sense to me. We all know that the S&P 500 was down 24% on a price basis in the last decade, adding in dividends it was down 4.5% for the decade. Whatever the result of the index obviously some stocks did better than the index and some did worse.
For the decade Caterpillar (CAT), a client holding, was up 142%. While there were a couple of trading opportunities along the way someone who held on for the entire decade added a lot of value with the pick. Even someone holding on during a couple of big declines for the name had a lot of luck with it for the decade.
Contrast that with Citigroup (C) which was down 91% for the decade. The stock spent most of the decade between $40 and $50 before rolling over in 2007. I've never owned Citi so I can't really pinpoint exactly when the story changed but after doing OK for quite a few years the story did change. I can only relate the financial stocks I sold; Bank of America for buying Merrill Lynch, Barclays in December 2007 because the UK was obviously in trouble and Allied Irish Bank in June 2008 as Ireland appeared to be deteriorating faster than most other countries. BAC was a very specific event and the other two were more nuanced than that.
Another example of a stock that was generally better to hold was ITT, not a name I own but recently profiled in Barron's. It was up 274% for the decade.
Over the next decade, assuming that Achuthan is correct, there will be stocks that outperform the index and stocks that lag it. In a portfolio of, for example, 50 stocks assembled today it is a very good bet that a bunch will indeed turn out to be good holds for the entire decade and that a bunch more will not. While I hope that is an obvious point it is also true.
Anytime a stock is purchased there are reasons for that purchase that are either bottom up, top down or a mix of the two. Forgetting about any tactical moves tied to sizing down or the like for a moment as long as the bottom up, top down or mix of the two that made the stock a buy are still in effect then generically speaking there is no reason to sell. When the story matures, evolves or proves out as being incorrect the stock is a sale. When has that ever been different?
I've said many times that I expected to hold Bank of America forever but it did not work out that way. After more than four years I sold it. I have some stocks that have been in client accounts since 2003 (before I joined Your Source Financial). I expect to hold these few names forever but if one of then does the equivalent of buying of Merrill Lynch then it would need to be sold. Again, when has this ever been different?
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15 comments:
Buy and hold must assume reasonably normal markets or at least markets that do not vary too greatly from normal but capitalism is an engine that has no self-restraint, no innate governor, so if it gets enough fuel (usually in the form of credit) it will accelerate as fast as it can until it crashes.
Restrict the fuel (central bank) or attach a governor (regulator) that the engine cannot override but it's better to have both; even better if oversight assures they do their job. Then buy and hold can work as can any other normalized strategy. Absent that, buy and hold (and much else) is indeed DOA.
Interesting analysis RW, I think that the worst crashes are when the supposed governor of the market gets confused and goes pro-cyclical. From what I can tell those crashes eclipse the crashes that take place with no governor in-line.
Here is an overview of a plausible market outlook from Draaisma (Morgan Stanley’s European)
http://pragcap.com/morgan-stanley-stocks-are-set-to-decline-in-2010
He calls for a sharp but not crushing correction latter this year and then range bound cycling for 5.6 years based on the average for other crashes.
Perhaps a general concept to follow is to invest and don't panic.
If you understand what you buy, don't remain married to a security when compelling evidence dictates a divorce, and diversify in areas other than securities that may provide tax avoidance strategies (keeping what you earn is a nice investment), the individual investor will do reasonably well.
If one cannot execute the above, GET HELP from a financial planner who understands and executes investments and legal tax avoidance techniques as they apply to your situation.
T
I'm hearing this often over the last year, I think people who say this aren't specific enough. And, in addition, the Bogleheads who argue don't realize that.
1. The guy usually means buying and holding specific equities for the long term is dead.
2. The Bogleheads immediately take offense, but don't realize that these guys are "stock pickers" and that what he's saying has nothing to do with buying a holding an entire portfolio.
3. My first reaction is always: "Ok, if you believe buy and hold is dead, what are your goals and what are your returns for the last 10 years?"
These are often one-off comments that need more context. A counterpoint would be something like this blog, where you state your goals (e.g. 75% of upside, 50% of downside) and share your returns. That's context that explains why you don't think buy and hold is the way to go for you and your clients.
SD i think of it as buy and hope to hold. i prefer to trade as little as possible in client accounts (and mine too for that matter) but as T notes when a change needs to be made it needs to be made.
Believing in regulators being able to fix things is like believing in the Easter bunny.
These failed institutions with shady trades, off balance sheet vehicles, etc. answered to dozens of regulators and no body said or did anything. It is extremely foolish to repeat better regulation is the solution (and I am for the Volker rule). The regulators are by and large bored with little understanding and never really get any authority when times are good. Times are always good before the bubble bursts.
The central bubble makers at the federal reserve are against reserve requirements for banks. This is the fuel not being controlled and is THE problem we had and continue to face.
Capitalism is not the problem. Capitalism is the best alternative. But not controlling the fuel (money/credit) means there is no control. The fed is filled of bubble making idiots and are manufacturing plants and service industries suffer as bank finance is not sound.
SEG
Paul Farrell today explains how the strategy of buy and hold is compatible with his prediction of another economic meltdown:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-lazy-portfolios-will-whip-2010-collapse-2010-03-30
Matthew, I think you'll need some hard data to back up that supposition; nothing I'm aware of confirms it at least.
Semi-OT but the big issue that remained poorly understood for the majority of capitalism's rise and is still not fully incorporated into many mainstream economic models today (e.g., real business cycle) is the increasing influence of finance over the past century. That is, finance was and is largely considered just another business sector as are other components of the FIRE (Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate) economy but that only reflects the part of the reality where these are all profit seeking enterprises in a capitalistic system
The other part which Keynes became aware of was that in a modern economy a great deal of capital is rarely if ever directly owned, it is financed. This interposes a "veil of money" between the owner and the capital which the financing agency controls by interposing its guarantee between depositors and borrowers. In a hard-money system (which Keynes was familiar with) this could lead to wide-spread panics and economic contraction if the guarantee become suspect so intervention would be required to prevent this; e.g., interposing a greater guarantee to counter bank runs.
Now that we have a fiat money system in which financial entities can create money by extending credit, Minsky's insight (e.g., http://tinyurl.com/yzzokuo) was that not only would these financial intermediaries be as prone to excess as any other profit-seeking entity (self-regulation was not inherently in the self-interest of their owners) but that positive feedback loops must grow ever stronger until even intervention might not suffice; e.g., amplification effects made systemic collapse not only possible but inevitable.
The evidence is strewn all around us.
With the addition of the "shadow banking" system to the rest of the FIRE institutions the level of complexity and potential destructiveness has ratcheted up yet again and normalization (including buy and hold) become ever more distant dreams. Those who have an alternative hypothesis about how to prevent the inevitable feedback loops from becoming even more destructive than before will need hard data and a realistic conceptual framework to make a plausible case.
Apologies for the longish comment; I'm working on that.
This blog suggests timing with moving averages has a high probability of beating buy & hold in the future.
http://easyretirementinvesting.com/2010/03/proof-that-long-term-market-timing-works/
I did a buy and hold of Vanguard's energy fund VGENX in 2003. The idea was to own enough that the distributions would pay (hedge) half my fuel costs. It has done that. I'm still holding on.
"capitalism is an engine that has no self-restraint"
perhaps, then, capitalism is not the model we should follow (however, I don't know what a better model would be).
I always thought it ironic that 1) a company is rewarded for increasing the unemployment rate and 2) unethical behavoir is rewarded!
Anon 12:07, IMO capitalism is a clearly superior system for allocating resources in a modern economy particularly when reasonably clear price signals are available; i.e., when it comes to fungible resources I'd take the invisible hand over the invisible mind of socialism any day.
Problems arise in a number of ways however, most of which have to do with reduced transparency, protection of predatory behavior in contract law, high levels of information asymmetry or spurious price signals abstracted from intrinsically non-fungible resources; e.g., what is the 'price' of good health, an enriching education or justice.
IMO capitalism is not the problem, even utopian arguments that capitalism is as good at governing as it is at resource allocation are not the problem, the problem is when that kind of muddy thinking gains enough traction in a democracy to weaken protections thus giving the wealthy and powerful far greater influence over the levers of government than individual citizens ought to possess: That's how you wind up "privatizing profits and socializing losses" AKA Lemon Socialism.
RW,
IMO, you can use all the text you want given that what you write is so clear and well thoughtout. Of course, it is Roger's place to really comment.
Ken
buy and hold would have made you a fortune over the past year. Its as easy as working with simple MAs on daily and weekly charts, regardless of whether you think the markets are normal or not. The markets ARE NOT normal, and never have been.
You are seriously deluded if you think you cannot buy and hold. That IS the only method that works unless you are an expert trader with resources out the ying yang.
There is so much false information spouted on these blogs its ridiculous. Wake up and smell the coffee. Trends are trends. Buy and hold works. its just a matter of developing a system for the buy/sell.
Are you so lazy that you can't do that simple task??
good luck, cause I know you'll need it.
you are seriously deluded if you think in terms of one year as buy and hold. holy crap.
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