Wikinvest Wire

Sunday, February 07, 2010

Sunday Morning Coffee


Yesterday a reader left this link from DealBook about Burton Malkiel's thoughts on active management along with the other side of the discussion as observed by James Tierney from WP Stewart, and active manager running a very concentrated portfolio with an outstanding track record versus the market going back to the 1970s.

You've heard the basics of Malkiel's argument before; no one can consistently pick winning stocks and no one can consistently time the market. In addition to the difficulty Malkiel also notes the problem of human emotions getting in the way. I imagine the argument in favor of active management is not new to you either. Among other things mentioned the active managers say that there are people who can consistently beat the market.

Malkiel also says the fees are too high but the active managers say a good manager is worth it. Perhaps in defense of the fees it seems as though the active managers were saying that they can tailor a portfolio to the client's needs and do so successfully. The debate in the article finishes up with Malkiel saying things like hedge funds are a better deal for the managers than the clients ("where are the customer's yachts?") and the active guys apply the superior ability to pick stocks into a defense for why exotic products do make sense for some people.

So on the one hand picking stocks that beat the market with consistency cannot be done and on the other hand "we" consistently pick the right stocks and have been doing so for a long time. This is always a good debate. I hate to tell the people who say it cannot be done but if someone has a track record for success of beating the market going back to the 1970s there is a good chance they are on to something. However it is just as true that not everyone can be above average and I am sure there are far more people that lag the market over long periods of time than beat it but I assure you WP Stewart is not the only company to have a stellar track record going back that far.

The above is all well and good and you will read about it again and again but it is completely the wrong context for the vast majority of investors. As I type that thought I know there will be comments from people who are focused on beating the market but again it is completely the wrong priority for most people.

An investor's top priority (repeat theme coming) would seem to be having enough money when they need it. What good is it to have soundly beaten the market for 20 years right up through 2007 with plans to retire in 2009 only, because of hubris from 20 years of beating the market, get hit worse than the market in 2008 and panic out at the low. Obviously an extreme example and you might be thinking about proper asset allocation but often hubris overcomes the logic of a proper asset allocation.

In addition to having enough for whatever the goal is (we're probably talking about retirement) I can tell you that there are all sorts of "one time" events that come up either as a function of an unrealistic understanding of what can be spent or a genuine emergency where money must come from the portfolio. One of these events coming at the wrong time, like last spring, can be impossible to recover from. Impossible that is unless something else gives.

The concept of life events happening makes the argument for smoothing out the ride or as John Serrapere puts it 75/50. To Malkiel's point about emotions getting the better of us; couldn't that be spun into an argument for the exact type of defensive action I talk about so much? After all when is an investor most likely to be overtaken by emotion and do the wrong thing in their portfolio? Wouldn't that point come for many people somewhere between down 30% and 50%? Maybe 20% and 40% but if we can't control our emotions then it seems logical to try to avoid putting ourselves in the position where we might succumb to emotion?

Given the argument I lay out above, I think the thing that matters is smoothing out the ride as much as possible. Avoiding parts of the market where there is obvious trouble, like Western Europe and the US financial sector over the last couple of years and for now we can add financials in China and long dated US treasuries, and favoring areas with some obvious tailwinds (was choosing Brazil really impossible to do five or six years ago?) is a way to do this.

If you don't think you can do this then maybe you shouldn't but it is not impossible to do especially when you realize that all this does, in the context I mean, is put the odds in your favor but there will be times where you are wrong. For normal active investors a career is some combination of correct and incorrect decisions that hopefully add value. Adding value does not have to mean beating the market every year. A month and a half ago I put up a post about a fictitious manager who lagged the market every year of the bull phase but got out in time thus coming out way ahead for the cycle. In that post I asked if lagging for five years but coming out 30% ahead for the entire cycle was a beat or not.

When you realize ahead of time that there will be bear markets, that you will not always be correct and think about the long run success of having enough when you need it you have a much better chance of doing well whatever that means to you. But the idea of picking a bunch of stocks to beat the market this year and then start over again next year makes the task more difficult. Convincing yourself not sell after you've ridden the market down for 40% also makes the task more difficult. I prefer to make the task simpler.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wow! You had a lot to say!

The main problem I see that investors will have is being able to find the manager who can consistently do what you describe in advance. Looking back a someone's twenty or thirty year track record does noting for the twenty or thirty years going forward. Managers come and they go. Then there is a blog like this where like minded folks discuss ideas so that they can do it themselves. That is fine and there might be a handful here that can do it. But studies consistently show that investors are their own worst enemy. So it is hard to argue against Malkiel's investment advice for >99% of investors. Confusing skill with luck in avoiding a major downdraft in the market could also lead to an outcome where there isn't enough to meet some goal.

I would gladly have over my money to someone like you to manage, but how can I know you'll be there thirty plus years from now? How can I find someone with the skills to replace you, especially when I'm infirm and not of sound mind? The alternative is to adopt a strategy that requires no one and is virtually automatic once started.

Roger Nusbaum said...

"own worst enemy" implies training needed maybe through a combination of understanding how markets work (historical perspective) along with realizing ahead of time that every so often things don't go well in the market.

fchris said...

these days, there are a ton of choices to what you can index to... Maybe a writer one of these days will take a look at Malkiels results at one of the firms he sits as advisor to --- rather than this tired old indexing story that runs every year that goes into some active firms specific results but gives Malkiel a free ride on the performance side.

I have seen the results of a few of these firms -- and they are not good.

I am a proponent of indexing to a mix of markets that reduces risk -- not blindly buying 10 index ETF's that correlate 95% with each other. This article missed the mark.

Anonymous said...

I really find these kinds of arguments tedious. In the spirit of Super Bowl Sunday, it's like arguing whether offense or defense wins football games.

The important nugget in Roger's post has to do with goal setting. How much do you need at some point in your life? Then the task becomes one of structuring a portfolio that meets that objective with as little risk/volatility as possible. Maybe answer is 70% bonds and 30% aussie dollars (intentionally silly.) The goal isn't to beat the mythical stock market; it's to get you what you need, when you need it. The only game that counts is yours.

Anonymous said...

Roger, what is the picture of? My guess is Kit Peak Observatory in AZ. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

My guess is Mauna Loa Hawaii.

Anonymous said...

Hi Roger:

Thanks for the interesting post. I have been reading your blog for a while and there has been something gnawing at me about your (and many others) investment philosophy when it finally crystallized. It is probably a stupid question, but I am guessing I am not alone in wondering about this. Specifically, you always talk about the need to stay fully invested (except when partially hedged based on the 200 day MA) to capture something near the full return of a "market cycle". So here is my question: What exactly is a "MARKET CYCLE"? Is the cycle from tough to peak? Is is measured by the calendar? If this is the case, what are your starting dates and ending dates? Was the bubble in 1999 the start or the end of a cycle? What about the subsequent collapse in 2000-2002? Was 2003 the beginning of a cycle? If so when did the cycle end to get out? Does a cycle mean stay invested in the same stocks forever (or as long as we live) unless the story changes in the individual stock and then buy another one and repeat? Obviously I just don't get the meaning of the seemingly obvious expression "to capture returns of a full market cycle". As this principle seems central to your investment philosophy (not to mention Hussman, and many others), I would greatly appreciate it if you could commeshed some light on this.

Thanks, L.D.

Anonymous said...

L.D.,

I'm not Roger, but you are very astute in your observation. A cycle can only be identified with any accuracy in hindsight. Anything any one else says is a SWAG. Random events (say Iran nuking Israel) are unknowable, yet would have profound and long lasting impacts on the value of markets (and by extension market cycle).

I am fascinated by these discussions. Don't know why.

Anonymous said...

"However it is just as true that not everyone can be above average..."

Obviously you've never encountered the fund managers at Lake Wobegon! (humor attempt)

Seriously, it seems that, as with a lot of things, the truth is between the two extremes of active mgmt vs passive indexing. Most investors don't have the ability to consistently pick stocks that "beat the market". But you can, as you have pointed out many times, smooth the ride with non correlated ETFs and defensive maneuvers when some sort of support has been breached.

BTW, thank you for all the great posts, very enlightening...

Mark from L-Ville

Anonymous said...

Roger,

You are clearly trying to beat the market through sector and stock selection, yet you are critical of trying to beat the market.

You are in favor of smoothing the ride and lots of clients would love that.

I want to beat the market and think it is achievable. That is Hussman's goal and I do not see you critizing Hussman

Roger Nusbaum said...

back in from a whole lotta shoveling--about 3/4 done, nice to see some chatter whip up.

anon 8:54 opens the door on another interesting idea--people who save enough or live cheaply enough probably don't need the the 65-70% equity exposure that normal people need.

the picture is Mauna Kea (13,967 feet).

IMO a full cycle can be whatever you want I suppose I think of it start of a bull phase to the start of the next bull phase--note defining the timeline may only be possible in hindsight. for example the rally since march could be a new bull or not.

Mark from L-ville, is that Louisville? Are you a hoops fan? Rick Pitino story for you from a long time ago. Summer 1981 I went to Wayne Embry basketball camp and Pitino (had to be in his 20s and probably the new coach at Boston U) gave speech/lesson to the whole camp. This was a few days into the week there was one kid at the camp who was deaf and all week his friend had been filling in the gaps for him when lipreading wouldn't work.

so in the middle of his thing Pitino starts to rip into the deaf kid for "talking." He was just getting warmed up and one of the senior counselors (the coach for Millis High for anyone who would know) scooted over to Pitino lickity split whispered in Pitino's ear, Pitino went white for a second and then picked up right where he left off.

anon 9:57, all i can tell you is that you are off slightly in your diagnosis. my focus is the entire cycle, up to you whether you take that at face value you or not.

Anonymous said...

Glad you like some chatter, even if it is disagreement. Keeps everyone sharp, as long as it is civil.

Anonymous said...

Roger, there might be a couple of points open to discussion in your post today but the wisdom in it overwhelms any perceived arguments. Good work and thanks.

Re: anon 8:54- The superbowl is nothing more than a play. The individual owners of the NFL teams are going to win and win big. The game you see is nothing more than entertainment and will have nothing to do with offense or defense. You'll have to look to college and high school sports to have that discussion,

Anonymous said...

anon 12:11--yeah, I don't suppose the owners are losing sleep over whether to index or pick stocks, are they.

Anonymous said...

"IMO a full cycle can be whatever you want I suppose I think of it start of a bull phase to the start of the next bull phase--note defining the timeline may only be possible in hindsight. for example the rally since march could be a new bull or not."

SO if you want to catch all of the gain from the start of the bull phase to the start of the next bull phase, this means you essentially want to be all in all the time (except when the market is below its 200 day sma, then partially hedged.)

So in essence we are tallking about a buy and hold for life philosophy if I am reading you right....

L.D.

Roger Nusbaum said...

no, you are framing it incorrectly and frankly there is an awful lot of context that you have not been around for where i go into all of this stuff but I'm not going to reproduce the literally hundreds of posts on this topic during the superbowl

Anonymous said...

Hi Roger: THis is from yesterday. You chose not to answer it because you said it was superbowl Sunday. But it really is quite important, imo. You often talk about buying for "the cycle". I just don't understand what you mean,and your answer in quotes below is not really a satisfactory answer, imho. I am asking this in the spirit of trying to learn, not to be hostile (indeed I am greatful to you for the site.) If you don't want me to ask it I will not peruse it again, but to reiterate I think it is important enough to warrant a more thorough discussion. The initial question asked about what constitutes a "market cycle" , since the investment philosophy on this site it to buy and hold in order to get the returns of a "market cycle".

Thanks, L.D.

Roger said:

"IMO a full cycle can be whatever you want I suppose I think of it start of a bull phase to the start of the next bull phase--note defining the timeline may only be possible in hindsight. for example the rally since march could be a new bull or not."

I said:

SO if you want to catch all of the gain from the start of the bull phase to the start of the next bull phase, this means you essentially want to be all in all the time (except when the market is below its 200 day sma, then partially hedged.)

So in essence we are tallking about a buy and hold for life philosophy if I am reading you right....


Roger said:

no, you are framing it incorrectly and frankly there is an awful lot of context that you have not been around for where i go into all of this stuff but I'm not going to reproduce the literally hundreds of posts on this topic during the superbowl

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