Friday, January 29, 2010
Bull Market Bear Market Complicated Market
The idea for this post was my initial and apparently incorrect reading of the Jeremy Grantham letter. On first read I thought he was saying expressly the market is very complicated these days and while he may have have been implying as much I did not find the comment as I remembered it on the second read through. Whether he implied it or not, I will say it; the markets right now are especially complicated and appear to be facing fundamental things that it has either never faced or not faced in modern times.
We as investors need to assess it all and try to navigate through.
The list of risk factors is too long to come up with all of them off the top but things on my mind this week (many of which have been newsworthy this week) have included many countries facing ratings downgrades and having to answer questions about whether they are candidates for default, just about every US state has serious deficit problems, it is possible the GDP growth seen thus far might be all from stimulus, pension funds are looking back at a decade where US stocks dropped a couple of percent per year but they need growth of 7-8% per year, there are conflicting messages coming from Washington (not unique), US budget deficits will be starting for with the letter T for years, creating enough jobs to get the U-6 number down to something decent seems like a mathematical impossibility, it seems like a mathematical certainty that home foreclosures must rise a lot and there are more.
The point of the above the paragraph is not to lay out a bearish argument for why stocks should go down because most of these issues have been around since before the rally started last March. The above paragraph does point out the complexities that we face today. When the market goes up they build the wall of worry for the market to climb and when the market goes down they become fundamental causes for a "big" decline.
That the same factors can be both the wall of worry and a reason to go down is not new but the current events are collectively a little more complicated than I think we are used to.
A big focus of this website from the beginning, and more importantly in the portfolios I manage, has been the expectation of trouble of this sort (with no attempt to assess magnitude or predict specifics) to come along and so to seek out countries that either avoid these issues or do not reasonably face the same magnitude of trouble where the issues might be similar.
There are plenty of countries that have only endured normal cyclical events in the last two years and so are clearly emerging from contraction--some of these places have far fewer employment issues or already raising rates as the economy expands-- or do not have anywhere near the mountain of debt and associated problems or don't have the entitlement program trouble the US has (the biggest number I have seen for social security and medicare is $53 trillion) or their banks are not so fouled up or any combination of the above.
Additionally there are many countries with far fewer moving parts (as a function of being less mature) where demographics are better, growth on the ground (infrastructure to create a modern industrial society) is going to happen as these countries become more globally relevant. Put another way there are less obstacles for these countries to have normal growth or growth that is close to normal.
If you have been reading this site for a while then you know the countries I am talking about but to mention a couple Norway, Chile and Israel and you can dig up Bill Gross' ring of fire that has been moving around the web this week for some ideas about where not to look.
The flip side to this is that every country has its own risk factors and a portfolio heavily invested in any foreign markets will lag when the dollar goes up or go down more during certain types of declines. Think about how much some countries were up during the last decade. Norway was up 121% and Chile was up 194% as the US was dropping 24%. Clearly US based investors were better served holding these markets over the longer term.
However there were periods were they lagged noticeably and perhaps uncomfortably behind the US. From March 1, 2004 to May 10 of that year as the S&P 500 fell 6% Chile fell 10% and Norway fell a more meaningful 14%. During that scare in the second quarter of 2006 (do you even remember that one?) as the S&P 500 fell 6% in a little over a month Chile dropped a little more but Norway fell 17%. In certain types of declines (in these two examples each lasting quite a few weeks) these markets can lag meaningfully but looking at the big picture, that is longer term, they were clearly better to hold.
If this is new to you then going forward it means trying to discern from being wrong and having to endure a market event. All of this adds up to more complicated. We will all have to get used to it.
We as investors need to assess it all and try to navigate through.
The list of risk factors is too long to come up with all of them off the top but things on my mind this week (many of which have been newsworthy this week) have included many countries facing ratings downgrades and having to answer questions about whether they are candidates for default, just about every US state has serious deficit problems, it is possible the GDP growth seen thus far might be all from stimulus, pension funds are looking back at a decade where US stocks dropped a couple of percent per year but they need growth of 7-8% per year, there are conflicting messages coming from Washington (not unique), US budget deficits will be starting for with the letter T for years, creating enough jobs to get the U-6 number down to something decent seems like a mathematical impossibility, it seems like a mathematical certainty that home foreclosures must rise a lot and there are more.
The point of the above the paragraph is not to lay out a bearish argument for why stocks should go down because most of these issues have been around since before the rally started last March. The above paragraph does point out the complexities that we face today. When the market goes up they build the wall of worry for the market to climb and when the market goes down they become fundamental causes for a "big" decline.
That the same factors can be both the wall of worry and a reason to go down is not new but the current events are collectively a little more complicated than I think we are used to.
A big focus of this website from the beginning, and more importantly in the portfolios I manage, has been the expectation of trouble of this sort (with no attempt to assess magnitude or predict specifics) to come along and so to seek out countries that either avoid these issues or do not reasonably face the same magnitude of trouble where the issues might be similar.
There are plenty of countries that have only endured normal cyclical events in the last two years and so are clearly emerging from contraction--some of these places have far fewer employment issues or already raising rates as the economy expands-- or do not have anywhere near the mountain of debt and associated problems or don't have the entitlement program trouble the US has (the biggest number I have seen for social security and medicare is $53 trillion) or their banks are not so fouled up or any combination of the above.
Additionally there are many countries with far fewer moving parts (as a function of being less mature) where demographics are better, growth on the ground (infrastructure to create a modern industrial society) is going to happen as these countries become more globally relevant. Put another way there are less obstacles for these countries to have normal growth or growth that is close to normal.
If you have been reading this site for a while then you know the countries I am talking about but to mention a couple Norway, Chile and Israel and you can dig up Bill Gross' ring of fire that has been moving around the web this week for some ideas about where not to look.
The flip side to this is that every country has its own risk factors and a portfolio heavily invested in any foreign markets will lag when the dollar goes up or go down more during certain types of declines. Think about how much some countries were up during the last decade. Norway was up 121% and Chile was up 194% as the US was dropping 24%. Clearly US based investors were better served holding these markets over the longer term.
However there were periods were they lagged noticeably and perhaps uncomfortably behind the US. From March 1, 2004 to May 10 of that year as the S&P 500 fell 6% Chile fell 10% and Norway fell a more meaningful 14%. During that scare in the second quarter of 2006 (do you even remember that one?) as the S&P 500 fell 6% in a little over a month Chile dropped a little more but Norway fell 17%. In certain types of declines (in these two examples each lasting quite a few weeks) these markets can lag meaningfully but looking at the big picture, that is longer term, they were clearly better to hold.
If this is new to you then going forward it means trying to discern from being wrong and having to endure a market event. All of this adds up to more complicated. We will all have to get used to it.
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10 comments:
If there's not blood in the streets, they're still stacking up the corpses. It's a great time to invest!
I disagree it is not complicated at all. We are all broke. Actually far beyond broke being zero we are deeply in debt.
Look at Japan, since we are clearly following the Japanese model. We will face WWW type stock market, but trending lower. Enjoy these cyclical bull markets when they occur.
There is no simple solution, but the proper path would be the Swedish model of saving the banking system and letting the banks go bust. Unfortunately we are following the Japanese model of saving the banks instead of focusing on the banking system.
SEG
this market is easy....
buy when it dives
and then SELL the minute
it turns green.
YIKES
but it works for me.
Long Term Investing RIP
thanks for working the mines all day to bring us this gold
Question - is there an easier way to look at the S&P 500's index montly returns than the spreadsheet on Standard and Poor's website?
heh, I'll answer my own question. bigcharts.com seems convenient. From some of the talk yesterday, I thought the S&P 500 was having multiple months down in a row.
"Going into this next decade, we start with the U.S.
overpriced, so do not be conned into believing that every
bad decade is followed by a good one. It happened
historically because when bull markets peak at only 21
times, a bad decade’s return will always make them cheap.
This does not necessarily apply to a decade that started at
35 times! A decade’s poor performance can still leave you
expensive (as this one has) when it starts so overpriced."
Jeremy Grantham
-------------
This is in agreement with my overall poor outlook for the decade and why I strongly suggest most people try to take much less than 4% a year from their portfolio to live off of. It takes a long time to work off all this excess debt.
But, for now this bull continues IMO.
SEG
@ SEG,
You've been on the mark so far about cyclical bull versus bear market rally. Regardless of how you define it, many missed an opportunity the last 10 months (such as Hussman and I am a fan of his work and own his fund).
What are you looking for, what indicators, what metrics, etc. that would indicate to you this cyclical bull is close to over, topping out, and rolling over. Just curious if we are watching the same stuff.
Same question for you RW if you are out there
Short term, this market wants to go down for whatever reason. Can't imagine what would have happened if GDP had printed a smaller gain.
MikeC,
Category errors can lead to faulty analysis so I refused to apply any label, "cyclical bull" or otherwise, to this move: It was just "a move;" probably a big one given even a modest retracement but otherwise not predictable from my POV.
I rely mainly on fundamental value and quantitative data for my core strategic portfolio which pretty much makes me sympathetic with Hussman's position except my hedging regime differs from his I think: Equilibrium models typical in the classical economic framework Hussman relies upon don't adjust when the zero interest rate boundary alters the playing field and they can't apply sufficient weight to new money creation either; e.g., when the Fed is engaged in QE.
IAC I remained net long but, under valuation and business cycle logic, discipline required some hedges remain in place: A flood of liquidity but weak sponsorship and excessive speculation, credit, housing and employment indicators absolutely stinking up the joint, and the business cycle itself out of sync with stock market action w/ sectors rotating in and out and/or not following normal sequence. The 4Q GDP announcement today only reinforces that view since about 3.5% of the 5.7% number represents inventory rebuild leaving 2.2% reflecting final demand (ugh).
The tactical approaches I used (momentum, point and figure, etc) to add alpha in the interim were primarily short-term, momentum oriented, because the amount of QE under a ZIRP and concomitant growth of global carry trade was hard to guesstimate but since the credit and currency markets dwarf equity markets even small moves can have large effects so close attention is advisable (when Chinese housewives can borrow Yen and Eurodollars to trade commodities or Eastern European strip mall developers finance projects in Euros and Swiss Francs then it doesn't seem worthwhile to risk anything longer than a swing trade unhedged).
Interesting times as they say but I'm still making more than I'm losing in the core portfolio and, with strong volatility, every once in awhile a trade absolutely takes off for the moon which is amazing fun as well as very lucrative so what the h*ll. Know it's tougher for those who manage others money and must worry about AUM but as a DYI'r I follow my own plan and don't have any reason to worry or care about the relative performance of others ...so I don't.
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