Wikinvest Wire

Monday, March 09, 2009

Weekend Roundup

A reader left a link to a long article from the Boston Globe about what a modern depression would look like. My first observation was that it reads a lot like Michael Panzner's book that I was probably the last person to read two years ago.

Amusingly it seemed less bleak than when I read most of the same stuff in Panzner's book two years ago because things have deteriorated so much since then. Foreclosures and unemployment are way up and the stock market and GDP are way down. Given that we are much closer to a depression in terms of what is actually happening on the ground it's like there is less ground between here and the scenario spelled out in the article and because of that it seemed less scary. I'm sure there is some sort of bias or coping mechanism that accounts for my reaction.

A couple of things I think the article missed is that people would migrate toward industries where there will be job growth which off the top would include healthcare workers, teachers and new government employees to administer the various stimulus and rescue plans.

I would also add that the idea of neighborhoods of overcrowded houses next to abandoned ones seems like more a of a micro phenomenon. Will the foreclosure rate make it to 15% of all mortgage borrowers? I have not seen any estimates that high. If, though, it does get that high that does not mean that all of those people will lose their jobs and for the ones that do, some portion (I would think a large portion) would seek out work that at a minimum left them under-employed. A couple, one of whom is a teacher, lets say, and the other a police officer, with a combined income of $80,000 that needs to go to foreclosure because of a reset of an ARM to a payment they can't afford can probably afford to go into some sort of rental at $1500 month as neither is likely to become unemployed.

That relatively rosy scenario is not an argument for no depression but more of an opinion (or hope) that it does not alter the social fabric of the country to the extent that many people fear. If we become a nation of collectively under-employed people then clearly far fewer people would prosper but it could also mean more people can stay put without turning their homes into multi generational compounds.

Next up is this from Jason Zweig about trying to take control of your financial situation, more specifically your investments. Most of the article sounds good to me but there is one thing I would add which is something not to do (the article is a list of things to do). Markets are down a lot. This triggers various sorts of emotions. Probably the worst thing to do after a 55% drop is to change your target allocation between equities and fixed income.

Even if you think October 2007 was 1929 making a radical overhaul to your target asset allocation now is a bad idea. At some point the market will come back, no matter how bullish or bearish you are it will come back, it came back from the 1930s. Maybe it takes two years (unlikely) or maybe it takes 20 years (also unlikely) but a switch today from 70 (stocks)/30 to 40/60 can only lengthen the time you need to get back. If you are young you have the time to give it to come back. If you are 100 years old now and think you won't be around in 20 years, less stock exposure won't help you out from here. The 70/30 number is just an example and I realize that 100 year old investor is unlikely to have more than 5% in stocks..

The above paragraph is not about any tactical defensive moves made thus far or that might be made from here. Someone can target 70% in equities and be underweight their target. The above paragraph is about people giving up which is different than tactical decisions.

If you have learned the hard way you had too much in stocks, from a numbers stand point you are better off waiting for it to at least come partially back before going from 70/30 to 40/60 or any numbers suitable for you. Not that doing so will be any easier for you but from a numbers standpoint...

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

I thought we had a MARKET based economy. Now all you extremely bright guys, who I am sure are much smarter than me want a mark to myth economy. I now see the wisdom of mark to myth.

It is stupid to let the market decide anything in retrospect. When gas hit $4.00 a gallon we should have forced the gas companies to sell the gas at $1.50 a gallon because the market number just can not be correct.

Banks should be allowed to assume mortgages are worth much more than their market vale because the market number just can not be correct.

My sisters home equity line should be reinstated by the bank, because there are plenty of Gucci stuff she has not yet purchased. Forget the fact that her condo value is down over 60%, her line of credit needs to be reinstated. The fall in value is wrong and the myth it will come back should be the basis of our society.

I feel so much better about my portfolio now that we are marking to myth. that $1,000,000 is not lost.

But please tell me comrade exactly whose myth from whose ivory tower do we believe? I guess their are plenty of former soviet economist phd's we could round up to help us with this or do we just elect mor communists to the congress?

Anonymous said...

I only checked the comments on weekends. I really see what you refer to as what I will call the "negative/aggressive" views. After 38 years I have seen many ups/downs and know pain of low and high interest rates. Trite as it may seem, having been there does teach one that in the long term things do recover. Think Buffet hit that point today. Hang in there Roger, still a good fundamental read each day.

Anonymous said...

The market values debt by correctly predicting interest rates for a security. The market discounts future payments due to the appropriate interest rate.

Basically there are two components to interest rates. Inflation and risk of default.

If you are agreeing with getting rid of mark to market you are saying the market does not know how to evaluate risk. You are also saying that the only people who know how to evaluate risk are the crooked bankers and finance people that got us into this mess in the first place.

You are saying the people who created liar loans and other toxic debt and told you it should be rated AAA are the only people that should be allowed to evaluate the appropriate risk for a security.

Not marking to market is appropriately labeled marking to myth. If you think we have problems now let them expand this debt bubble even further by marking to myth to fix it.

Anonymous said...

good morning Roger,
I also wish to thank you for keeping your blog going.
The blog is surprisingly quiet today, compared to the last couple of days.
I wish to comment on a recent post.
For me the subject is Trust, lack of.
I think, a statement was made emphasizing the need for focusing on what needs to be done today to get our economy going versus using resources addressing the past.

We need to do both.

Trust, lack of, is a major problem today for a lot of people. A statement from the Administration that people will be held accountable and set up a commission to commence fact gathering and not impede work that is being done to get this economy going again. The hearings, etc can take place in the future. This will help restore Trust and accountability.

Our economy needs private capital to TRUST and move $$$ from safe havens into equities that can start solving our problems with oil , water, transportation, education, ...
-richard

Anonymous said...

11:15 What a load of nonsense

by your definition of the sanctity of MTM - THERE WAS NO BUBBLE

after all, the MTM prices at the time said that all these bubble assets were valuable....


IF you are hugely short and salivating for a giant wipeout by forcing the market to deleverage in a panic, just say so.

For the rest of us, MTM distortions are just part of the pro-cyclical framework that needs to be addressed. The purpose of capital ratios is to allow banks to handle crisis - now that we are in the crisis, the counter cyclical - rational thing to do is to ease capital requirements by whatever means - and to tighten them when times are good ( and MTM says - THE SKY'S THE LIMIT!)

Stephen Drone said...

The problem is, the reverse happened.

Sure, you should tighten them when times are good. Trouble is, we didn't. The ratio requirements were changed several years ago to allow more leverage.

Stephen Drone said...

Oh, and yeah we definitely need a chart comparing number of comments to daily market performance. heh.

Clive said...

Hi Roger

"Markets are down a lot.... At some point the market will come back, no matter how bullish or bearish you are it will come back, it came back from the 1930s. Maybe it takes two years (unlikely) or maybe it takes 20 years (also unlikely)"

Please don't take this as a criticism - but - come/go back to where? The late 1990's highs?

One man's floor is another man's ceiling.

What odds would you put on it taking 140 years?

From historical evidence it could happen

http://ih.fotothing.com/82533.gif

Roger Nusbaum said...

Clive, you have given me tomorrow's post.

thank you.

Anonymous said...

The following are a few quotes form Roubini's post today at RGE Monitor...http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/255909/how_low_can_the_stock_markets_go__much_lower

"Of course you cannot rule out another bear market sucker’s rally in 2009, most likely in Q2 or Q3: the drivers of this rally will be the improvement in second derivatives of economic growth and activity in US and China that the policy stimulus will provide on a temporary basis: but after the effects of tax cut will fizzle out in late summer and after the shovel-ready infrastructure projects are done the policy stimulus will slack by Q4 as most infrastructure projects take year to be started let alone finished; similarly in China the fiscal stimulus will provide a fake boost to non-tradeable productive activities while the traded sector and manufacturing continues to contract. But given the severity of macro, household, financial firms and corporate imbalances in the US and around the world this Q2 or Q3 sucker’s market rally will fizzle out later in the year like the previous 5 ones in the last 12 months."

"It is true that equity prices are forward looking and they usually tend to bottom out six to nine months before the end of a recession as equity prices are forward looking and they see ahead of the curve the light at the end of the tunnel. So the optimists seeing a recovery of growth in the second half of 2009 argue that equities should start to rally on a sustained basis now (or even six months ago). But this severe U-shaped recession in the US may not be over at the 24th month date (December 2009). Most likely the unemployment rate will rise throughout 2010 all the way well above 10% and the growth rate will be so weak (1% or closer to 0%) that we will remain in a technical recession for most of 2010 (36 months if the recession is over only in December 2010). Thus, the bottom of the stock market may occur in late 2009 at the earliest or possibly some time in 2010."

"Also the “6-9 months ahead forward looking stock market view” is not always borne in the data. During the last recession the economic bottomed out in November 2001 and GDP growth was robust in 2002 but the US stock markets kept on falling all the way through the first quarter of 2003. So not only the stock market were not “forward looking”: they actually lagged the economic recovery by 18 months rather than lead it by 6-9 months. A similar scenario could occur this time around: the real economy sort of exits the recession some time in 2010 but growth is so weak and anemic while deflationary forces keep an additional lid on pricing power of corporations and their profit margins that US equities may – like in 2002 - move sideways for most of 2010 – with a number of false starts of a real bull market – as economic recovery signals remain mixed."

"Thus, most likely we can brace ourselves for new lows on US and global equities in the next 12 to 18 months. Eventually a more sustained recovery will occur once we are closer to clear signals that this ugly global U-shaped recession is not turning into a L-shaped near depression and that the global economic recovery is clear and sustained. Until then expect very volatile and choppy US and global equity markets with new lows reached in the next months and the year ahead."

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